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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I have found the cause of my electrical gremlins. I have the 2020 x4 LV but I would think it would be a problem with the 2 seater also. Passenger side rear seatbelt bolt on the console side had rubbed through the wiring harness. I found the bad spot in the harness and opened it up.PCM wire burned thru first (35 amp fuse on a 14 ga wire, bad combo) then proceeded to short to power steering hot in the process of welding the PCM feed to the steering power feed (8 ga wire with 40 amp fuse,again,bad practice)now steering power is running power steering and PCM .Ran all 4th of July weekend no problem (power steering seemed to be weak on occasion)got home and took it off the trailer and literally had no power steering. In the process of looking for pinched wire (thanks Paul) popped the 40 amp fuse.All wires were repaired with marine grade connectors and harness was moved to other side of console.The real danger is the 4 ga winch wire was next in line (1/16 to 1/8th inch).I am going to look into a breaker for that. I hope everyone takes the time to remove a few push pins to make sure that you don’t have a problem. Marc
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Plant Organism Terrestrial plant Twig Wood
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WOW, good find!!!

8 gauge is good for 40 amps, 14 volts, 2% drop for about 11 feet. Roundtrip wires length (hot and ground) for the EPS feed appears to be around 9 or 10 feet so that is probably acceptable. But, 30 amps on 14 gauge is only good for 3.5 feet so that one looks a little suspect. However, under normal operating scenarios, the PCM will only draw 5 or 10 amps. Maybe 30 amps is the PCM engaging all the solenoids and relays at once and that rarely (if ever) happens and if it does, only for a few seconds so maybe 14 gauge wire might be OK if that is how it was engineered.

As far as the 2 seater, the harness is routed completely differently and a good 2" away from the seatbelt bolt. I do not think this is a concern for a 2 seater. 2 seater seat position is lower than the rear seats in the 4 seater so it appears that the bolt is lower and the harness is secured differently and high above the bolt. The silver part is my radiator hose wrapped to keep the heat down but without the 1.5"+ of wrap, the actual hose under all the insulation is at least 2" from the bolt so clearances for that bolt on the 2 seater appear to be of no concern...

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Wire size calc @ 40 amps...

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Paul, my second post was an attempt to edit my first post :) (iPhone is definitely smarter than me) pwr steering wire is 10 ga. The 14 ga wire is not more than 4 ft long. What amazed me was that the wires actually welded themselves together. When I got it opened up there were probably only 4 strands of the 10 ga still intact. Don’t know if you noticed but the seat belt bolt has weld slag on it. I would still recommend that all x4 s still do this inspection. Thanks again for your input.
 

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glad you were able to find the smoking gun.....


good stuff all, and appreciate when someone gets back with what the problem was so everyone can learn...

problems will get resolved or at least pointed in the right direction faster amongst the forum members when the follow-up is done
 

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I had a chance to check mine tonight. I have around 1000 miles on my buggy and the wiring harness was definitely rubbing the seat belt buckle mounting bolt but it hadn't rubbed through. Eventually it definitely would have. I used one large zip tie to pull the wiring harness off to the side. In the pictures you can see that the wiring harness had polished the bolt. Disaster averted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have 1100 miles on my X4. That might be the meltdown number. Glad to have helped save one machine as this is a PITA repair. Should probably be a recall as Honda could replace this bolt with one that is 1/2” shorter and solve the problem. Sorry,13 mm
 

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Ok, I have found the cause of my electrical gremlins. I have the 2020 x4 LV but I would think it would be a problem with the 2 seater also. Passenger side rear seatbelt bolt on the console side had rubbed through the wiring harness. I hope everyone takes the time to remove a few push pins to make sure that you don’t have a problem.

I haven't been to panel disassembly class yet though I have an idea of which to remove to inspect. Can someone clarify which panel to pull for inspection?
 

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I'll add a bit to this. I have a 2021 10004 LV, still low mileage and build date within 120 days. On the attached images #1 points to the seat belt harness bolt. #2 is what is supposed to be a hold off stanchion. If held correctly it would hold the harness about 1/2" above the bolt. You can see from my first pic the stanchion is unseated from the factory. Eventually this would have dropped and started the contact wear against the bolt. In the second pic I brought the cable right and secured it with zip ties labeled #3. There are multiple ways to re-secure or reroute the harness but the failure point is item #2. I suppose you could re-secure # 2 but I didn't trust it.
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You arent wrong in your particular case. But, my plastic stanchion was still firmly seated into the metal frame tab and holding he wirimg harness securely all while allowing the wiring harness to rub the seatbelt bolt. I considered bending the metal tab to put the stanchion at a different angle to provide more clearance but ultimately decided to ziptie the harness to the side.
 

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You arent wrong in your particular case. But, my plastic stanchion was still firmly seated into the metal frame tab and holding he wirimg harness securely all while allowing the wiring harness to rub the seatbelt bolt. I considered bending the metal tab to put the stanchion at a different angle to provide more clearance but ultimately decided to ziptie the harness to the side.
We both agree the stanchion was not the correct solution, secured or not. Both of us went to the right and secured to other metal body tabs. Honda needs to change the design for the cable routing and notify their service techs to inspect and correct any unit that is touched. In my old world we would call that an ECN and FCO (engineering change notice and Field change order)
 

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Thank you so much for this post. You will never know how many trips, money, frustration, and Honda's reputation you may have saved. Thank you.
 

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Thanks for the heads up on this. I only have 112 miles on mine but pulled the rear console to verify. The harness was attached to the stanchion but I could see where over time it could start rubbing on the bolt. I put a couple zip ties on the harness to keep tension away from the seat bolt and also put a rubber dust cap over the end of the bolt with a blob of RTV. I'll make a point of keeping an eye it for a while.

Edit: Non Live Valve
 

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Thanks for the heads up on this. I only have 112 miles on mine but pulled the rear console to verify. The harness was attached to the stanchion but I could see where over time it could start rubbing on the bolt. I put a couple zip ties on the harness to keep tension away from the seat bolt and also put a rubber dust cap over the end of the bolt with a blob of RTV. I'll make a point of keeping an eye it for a while.
Is yours a Live Valve or not?
 

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That’s messed up. I was in the console of my 2 seater x and noticed the wiring harness had pulled loose from its attachment points on both sides. Harness was banjo tight and I zip tied them to secure. I didn’t notice any rub points. I think 10 guage is rated for 30A. Still crazy it didn’t pull enough fault current to blow the 40A fuse before the wire burnt through.
 

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WTF HONDA
Man for the cash we pay for these machines at least they could do is make them last now it seems like it's just Chinese junk assembly I sure hope these weren't built in AMERICA if they were someone needs a class in safety
Just my 🪙🪙
PS
Sorry if I offended anyone!!!!!!!!
 

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WTF HONDA
Man for the cash we pay for these machines at least they could do is make them last now it seems like it's just Chinese junk assembly I sure hope these weren't built in AMERICA if they were someone needs a class in safety
Just my 🪙🪙
PS
Sorry if I offended anyone!!!!!!!!
It is well know that Honda ATV's and UTV's are assembled in Ohio South Carolina with American, Japanese, Mexican, Chinese, etc. parts.

Many American workers no longer have pride in their work and makes the good workers look bad. Made (or even assembled) in America means absolutely nothing to me anymore.
 
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