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Discussion Starter #41
There are moral and performance questions you need to ask yourself before you focus on features.

1) Do you like wearing a mask, seeing people loose their jobs, deal with this virus at hand? Well, supporting a company like Polaris that outsources it’s jobs, to build a product that is made from cheap components that constantly fail for the main priority of profits of a few board members, by integrating it’s production with countries that do not value it’s own people to the point of slave labor, and in turn, destroys the environment to the point creating catastrophic damage to humanity and the planet, then Polaris is your product. Buying a Honda gets American jobs assembling and building the parts, and supports a country (Japan) that is now fully pulling out of China. Every Polaris should come with a flag saying I support and love communism, tear down any walls, and F*$&* the USA!

2) The other thing Is performance. From experience in racing for years, I always tell new kids on the block, put your money is suspension and handling (Chasis) over power. Honda is a billion dollar car company that nailed this down. Power is cheap and can be added later but if the package does not deliver all the Turbo power in the world, will just exploit it’s weaknesses. I’ve had friends with $50,000 X3’s jump in my Talon and come back with the biggest smile on their face. The amount of work they do to maintain that level, is insane. They all say my Honda Is so fun to drive, snappy, and gives back to the driver. Why are you buying a SXS? I’m amazed how many get an SXS with some insane flag on it, drink beer and talk about the next accessories on order, relieve all the cheap parts that fail, versus buy something just go have fun with . Granted I’m still partial to my YXZ for driving hard because it’s closer to my motocross bike, BUT I have found the Talon delivers an incredible level of fun, with amazing all around performance that out of the box I would put up against anything.

Accessories. General rule buy the basics from a dealer because the extras and aftermarket you buy direct is always cheaper and usually higher quality.

Belts.... sport SXS’s are a hybrid between a motorcycle and car racing technology, not clambering ATV’s. Putting a Belt in a SXS is about as dumb as rubber bullets in a fighter jet. It’s going to fail for what it’s intended to do, constantly. It robs performance and it’s a reminder to the lack of design and engineering a gear on gear transmission can provide. How insane you drop $20 to $35K on a product and have to baby sit temp gauges so your belt does not blow. I can NOT imagine someone on a MX track saying I could not do a 90 foot triple that lap because my belt was too warm. How this became a standard in SXS’s I will never understand . Good job Yamaha, good job Honda for employing engineers so not to repeat this weak link!

Oh here are some items from my Buddy that completly
hates is his brand new RZR turbo Pro...

1) broken driveline form bad balance - replace 3 times now has aftermarket on
2) GPS system is buggy, super slow to start up, and fails and has found an Apple IPad is more accurate and plays music
3) Had to weld frame cracks on low upper main by arms
4) Stitches have pulled out of seats so replaced seats
5) Seat belts suck so replaced with 4 point system
6) Clutch went out at 500 miles so replaced
7) Had to replace other internals with Sand Craft
8) Electrical grounds worked loose and had to reweld and tie in new grounding
9) Beadlocks leaked and are total China garbage
10) Shock bolt was stripped from factor and required replacement of entire front shock
11) Plastic panels vibrate above 60mph and had to add extra plastic tabs to stop this
12) The stock roll cage they did not clean up the welding slags on the welds and his wife cut her hand hanging on the to the roll bar
13) and finally the part I hate the most, he gets error codes and it stops all the time, and we sit in the desert and clear codes or tow it back .
Thank you for taking the time to share your in depth experience. I really very much appreciate it.
 

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view this youtube video on the Honda Talon and Yamaha YXZ rear suspension...
Yep, but that isn't really the end all be all about the Talon's suspension....but it does have some affect in the whoops. That is also what he keeps pointing to in the video....a simple spring and revalving and the suspension works great!!
 

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2005 Honda Rincon, 2013 Can Am Renegade XXC
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Getting the right suspension out of the box instead of messing around with costly spring and revalving and then it still won't perform properly is a waste of money period. Been there done that at a cost of $3k of work that only marginally improvements is just foolish, like in my previous replies I was all ready to lay down $25k on the Honda Talon with live valve but again only didn't treat the root cause which is the design flaw of both Honda and Yamaha, but hey its your money and its only my opinion.
 

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Yep lots of Hondas at the race tracks proving Shock Therapy wrong. Every machine has things that you need to spend money on to set it up to each person's way of riding. And every machine comes from the factory with suspension that is not technically set up for everyone's type of riding. Just saying you can spend $1,200 and have suspension that is awesome and a machine that has no belt and so many other positives over other machines. You're right I spent my money on basically one of the least expensive machines out and spent another $1,200 to make it rock! Every other brand of machine has problems that cannot be fixed. Everyone jumps on what shock therapy has said but there are other suspension people that do not claim it's bad like shock therapy says. Just making sure we don't keep spreading wrong information....
 

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And the other part of the suspension being the front end, shock therapy puts the Honda in the top three manufacturers on the market. So does that make all the companies at the bottom of that list crap? Does it mean that everybody that spent $30,000 on a Can-Am should be extremely pissed that the front end suspension geometry sucks compared to a $20,000 Honda? The problem is there are so many things that go in to designing suspension and making it work properly that most of consumers really have no idea if they have good suspension or not. All they care about is does it feel smooth even though it could perform like crap. The Honda Talon handles (right to left and cornering) very well. Once again it just doesn't do the big whoops as well as some others. And I believe that most people care more about having a awesome driving experience and making it out of the woods every weekend.... Since most of us don't race and care about a couple tents of a second faster in the whoops. And for reliability and driving experience I believe Honda is definitely at the top of that list.
 

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You’re missing the point though, the suspension seems just fine on big whoops, it’s the low speed rocks and potholes that it is brutally stiff on, to the point that the machine hops all over the place.
 

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I know exactly what you're saying. I own one. The problem is it's just inaccurate. The suspension geometry does not make the car handle rough. That is springs and valving which lots of that can be attributed to the vehicle regulations that they have to meet for the rollover test. So if you are talking about the talons suspension going through whoops really fast then that is suspension geometry. If you are talking about the talons suspension being too stiff then that is not geometry really but more in the springs and valving. Also when the shocks lose nitrogen that is not a Honda problem but a fox problem. Fox has that problem across the board with every shock they sell that has the rubber cap on the bottom. What I'm trying to do is have people understand that the suspension, which arguably needs to be adjusted on any machine you buy, is not bad. It is stiff. But it can be made to be plush if you do the right springs and valving. A Can-Am needs $2,500 or more to make its front end not break easy. You can just take a look at the recall list and you have your answer on Polaris. I can go on and on about the different shortcomings of every brand and those shortcomings leave you stranded on the trail.

I have my suspension currently at G-Force racing technologies getting the springs and valving done and adding hi/low adjusters. Mine will not be as soft as some have there's because I run fast and hard. so like I've been saying my setup would be different than someone else's setup who's would be different than someone else's setup who's different than someone else's setup. Hard to build a end-all be-all for everyone.
 

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That is springs and valving which lots of that can be attributed to the vehicle regulations that they have to meet for the rollover test.
The test is the same for everyone. My Ranger rides great and it passes the test. My RZR rides great and it passes the test. My nephews Can Am Sport rides great and it passes the test. My brothers General rides great and it passes the test.
Honda just screwed that up just like the air intake and the shifter gate and the front axle seals.
 

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The test is the same for everyone. My Ranger rides great and it passes the test. My RZR rides great and it passes the test. My nephews Can Am Sport rides great and it passes the test. My brothers General rides great and it passes the test.
Honda just screwed that up just like the air intake and the shifter gate and the front axle seals.
True, but there are a lot of factors that go into that. For example width of machine, weight of machine, weight that they are claiming the machine can carry, etc. I'm not denying that the talon's suspension doesn't need some adjusting to my liking. There has not been a sports car, Jeep, mountain bike, dirt bike, or four wheeler that I have owned and not done suspension adjustments to it. Some were too soft and needed to be stiffer, some were too stiff and needed to be softer. I guarantee that anybody that sends their shocks away and has them done to their liking will be extremely happy with its outcome.

I agree with you that the Honda is not perfect. But the only real problem you stated is the front axle seals, which a lot of them have been due to plugged vent lines. The reason I say that's the only real problem is because the shift gate technically is not a problem if you keep the cable adjusted properly, which is what most people are not doing correctly. And the air intake is not in a good location for dust but I have put 800 to a thousand miles on Tennessee trails and my filter was extremely dirty but never stopped filtering or plugged. Honda actually says that people are replacing the filter too soon and this filter performs well past it looking dirty unlike most other air filters. There is a reason that the s&b particle separator has one for every brand of machine. All their intakes could be positioned or filtered better. Just sayin!
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Getting the right suspension out of the box instead of messing around with costly spring and revalving and then it still won't perform properly is a waste of money period. Been there done that at a cost of $3k of work that only marginally improvements is just foolish, like in my previous replies I was all ready to lay down $25k on the Honda Talon with live valve but again only didn't treat the root cause which is the design flaw of both Honda and Yamaha, but hey its your money and its only my opinion.
I'm still very much in the research stage of the game. I appreciate the depth of your experience and willingness to share. I'm putting the brakes on the purchase of any UTV for now as the current market is definitely not in favor of the buyer. Maybe next year when all of this settles down and the buyers of this years stuff at msrp get tired of those payments, I may be able to pick up something at a reasonable price. It figures I'd be in the market for one just as prices skyrocket! Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
True, but there are a lot of factors that go into that. For example width of machine, weight of machine, weight that they are claiming the machine can carry, etc. I'm not denying that the talon's suspension doesn't need some adjusting to my liking. There has not been a sports car, Jeep, mountain bike, dirt bike, or four wheeler that I have owned and not done suspension adjustments to it. Some were too soft and needed to be stiffer, some were too stiff and needed to be softer. I guarantee that anybody that sends their shocks away and has them done to their liking will be extremely happy with its outcome.

I agree with you that the Honda is not perfect. But the only real problem you stated is the front axle seals, which a lot of them have been due to plugged vent lines. The reason I say that's the only real problem is because the shift gate technically is not a problem if you keep the cable adjusted properly, which is what most people are not doing correctly. And the air intake is not in a good location for dust but I have put 800 to a thousand miles on Tennessee trails and my filter was extremely dirty but never stopped filtering or plugged. Honda actually says that people are replacing the filter too soon and this filter performs well past it looking dirty unlike most other air filters. There is a reason that the s&b particle separator has one for every brand of machine. All their intakes could be positioned or filtered better. Just sayin!
It has been very educational reading your "back and forth" regarding the talon and it's suspension. I've watched the "shock therapy" videos on what to buy, what's the best etc and had to pretty much throw their information aside. They race and ride dunes and push the limits of their machines. Their needs could not be more the opposite of mine. I've watch a lot of videos from folks in Arizona (where I grew up) using their Talons for the same type of driving that I would be doing. Their complaints are few but there are some. I intend to put a particle separator on anything that I buy, as well as some safety items and creature comforts. Thank you for taking the time to share. It has helped a lot.
 

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It has been very educational reading your "back and forth" regarding the talon and it's suspension. I've watched the "shock therapy" videos on what to buy, what's the best etc and had to pretty much throw their information aside. They race and ride dunes and push the limits of their machines. Their needs could not be more the opposite of mine. I've watch a lot of videos from folks in Arizona (where I grew up) using their Talons for the same type of driving that I would be doing. Their complaints are few but there are some. I intend to put a particle separator on anything that I buy, as well as some safety items and creature comforts. Thank you for taking the time to share. It has helped a lot.
No prob. You are right most of what shock therapy does is race and race in the sand dunes. A lot of East coast shock guys would tell you they fix a lot of shock therapies setups. I'm not claiming that shock therapy is bad just saying I wouldn't make them the gospel either.
Not sure where you live but I do most of my riding in Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Missouri... If you truly want to test out a Honda Talon or a YXZ you could meet me some weekend and I would let you test both those machines. I have a 2017 YXZ SS SE also. I don't think you would be disappointed with the suspension on either of my rides!
 

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Discussion Starter #55
No prob. You are right most of what shock therapy does is race and race in the sand dunes. A lot of East coast shock guys would tell you they fix a lot of shock therapies setups. I'm not claiming that shock therapy is bad just saying I wouldn't make them the gospel either.
Not sure where you live but I do most of my riding in Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Missouri... If you truly want to test out a Honda Talon or a YXZ you could meet me some weekend and I would let you test both those machines. I have a 2017 YXZ SS SE also. I don't think you would be disappointed with the suspension on either of my rides!
Wow, Thank you for the offer, that is very generous. I would love to. I will be riding mostly in the southern portion of Idaho, but also in some forested areas. Sure would be fun though to test ride your machines. Again, I very much appreciate the offer.
 

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While we are speaking of suspension and geometry, have you ever noticed Polaris’s Shocks?
Just about every model out there the Tender springs are collapsed straight from the factory! Makes you wonder why they just didn’t eliminate them all together! Evidently they also would fail the stringent US Rollover safety rules and the only way they can keep the tires on the ground at the 25mph turn test it to have their upper springs practically fully compressed! So Honda is not the only ones out there who suffer the effects of the vehicle regulations set out by the government.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Just watched a video on YouTube of the krx, XRC and the Talon 4x fox live rock crawling in Utah. Very impressive video. The talon not only held it's own (with stock suspension) but excelled in many ways. The KRX 2 seater did very also but the Can-am XRC totally sucked. Makes me want the 4xFLV even more. Only mod made on his was a change to 32" tires, which he said made a huge difference in the crawling ability and ground clearance. That's exactly the kind of driving I'm interested in. Give it a watch if you have time.
 

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Just watched a video on YouTube of the krx, XRC and the Talon 4x fox live rock crawling in Utah. Very impressive video. The talon not only held it's own (with stock suspension) but excelled in many ways. The KRX 2 seater did very also but the Can-am XRC totally sucked. Makes me want the 4xFLV even more. Only mod made on his was a change to 32" tires, which he said made a huge difference in the crawling ability and ground clearance. That's exactly the kind of driving I'm interested in. Give it a watch if you have time.
Nice video, rock crawling is all about torque, ground clearance, tire selection and oh yes, driver experience is a definite wild card. The stock suspension is better than most owners give it credit for, yes on the best shock set up you will still get moved around but the tires stay connected to the ground!
 
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