[phm14]

Hey Guys,



I'm researching sport SXSs, and as of now the Talon X is at the top of my list. I've heard complaints that they are sprung fairly stiff, especially in the rear. This seems to follow with hard cornering being described as "flat". I've also noticed from testing video that the car often seems to jump rear high, highlighting the lack of full shock adjustment. Does pushing your X over jumps/whoops cause the rear to buck/stinkbug, leaving you wishing you had separate rebound adjustment? Does adding cargo weight help balance the front/rear? I'm planning to mount a spare on the rear, which should help soften things up in the back. Would have greatly preferred fully adjustable shocks, like those that come on the YXZ SE models, instead of the limited adjustment, versions on the Talons. Spending $2K+ on suspension with full adjustment, on a $20K machine, is not very appealing. I've seen the aftermarket (Shock Therapy and Bandit) coming through with both tender and full spring kits, but good shock set ups match valving to rate. Re-valving is an option, and I think these shocks are up-gradable (by Fox?) to a full adjust set up, but how much does all that cost? It's a bit disappointing to think that Honda considers their customers are incapable of figuring out suspension adjustments...I mean everything comes with recommended start settings, and those can always be reverted to. Maybe it was just a cost cutting measure, but suspension on machines like this is priority one for me. If owners push, Honda should address suspension deficits sooner than later, and that fact has me wondering if waiting for a better suspended version may be the best route for me. Anyone tried the Bandit tender spring kit? The Shock Therapy springs are $600, and they recommend a revalve on top of that. Anyone tried one or both of those options? Softer springs, with no other changes, would likely increase roll...

 

[scottymac]

I have raced motocross and desert racing professionally for years, and I ALWAYS tell people the same thing, put your money in your suspension and handling before you ever touch the motor. Then you have a tool set to win. Go with those that live and die by Racing not some dude shop that resells springs and makes fancy videos.

Call Weller Racing you won't be disappointed. Nothing was more harsh than the YXZ when it came out, and Weller racing ran Yamaha to the top of many different championships with the most progressive fixes for that SXS! Weller Racing has over 1000 miles developing a very cost effective suspension kit for the Honda Talon. Just amazing!! Plus, they have a national champion doing their test driving not some guy rally'ing it at the dunes!! Again, Best solution on the market for the Talon R right now but I imagine the internals are all the same!!

https://www.wellerracing.com/Talon-...-Modification-Package--WR-Edition_p_4032.html

 

[PaulF]

Hey Guys,



I'm researching sport SXSs, and as of now the Talon X is at the top of my list. I've heard complaints that they are sprung fairly stiff, especially in the rear. This seems to follow with hard cornering being described as "flat". I've also noticed from testing video that the car often seems to jump rear high, highlighting the lack of full shock adjustment. Does pushing your X over jumps/whoops cause the rear to buck/stinkbug, leaving you wishing you had separate rebound adjustment? Does adding cargo weight help balance the front/rear? I'm planning to mount a spare on the rear, which should help soften things up in the back. Would have greatly preferred fully adjustable shocks, like those that come on the YXZ SE models, instead of the limited adjustment, versions on the Talons. Spending $2K+ on suspension with full adjustment, on a $20K machine, is not very appealing. I've seen the aftermarket (Shock Therapy and Bandit) coming through with both tender and full spring kits, but good shock set ups match valving to rate. Re-valving is an option, and I think these shocks are up-gradable (by Fox?) to a full adjust set up, but how much does all that cost? It's a bit disappointing to think that Honda considers their customers are incapable of figuring out suspension adjustments...I mean everything comes with recommended start settings, and those can always be reverted to. Maybe it was just a cost cutting measure, but suspension on machines like this is priority one for me. If owners push, Honda should address suspension deficits sooner than later, and that fact has me wondering if waiting for a better suspended version may be the best route for me. Anyone tried the Bandit tender spring kit? The Shock Therapy springs are $600, and they recommend a revalve on top of that. Anyone tried one or both of those options? Softer springs, with no other changes, would likely increase roll...

I am not a racer and was looking at fixing the harsh ride. The suspension settled down after 750 miles and I backed off my crossovers and that helped somewhat but I was still not happy, especially because I mosty ride alone and lightly loaded the Talon is rough! I have an R with the Shock Therapy springs. They made a huge difference all around. The tender springs are softer but it appears that the main springs might be a little stiffer. No added body roll that I have experienced. It does not jump nose down anymore and the ride is so good it is now wife approved (she hated the ride so much that she would not ride in it before the spring change). I am now happy with my ride and will most likely not get the shocks worked over for now.

The X lacks crossover rings and the ST kit adds them so it should make a big difference on the X, maybe even a bigger improvement because the R already has crossover rings. However, the X only comes with Fox 2.0 and the R comes with 2.5's.

Weller Racing doesn't make anything for the X so your choices at the moment are Bandit or ST. Go on over the Hondasxs.com, there are some postings about the Bandit springs on the X.

FYI, DO NOT remove the sway bar (at least on the R), it will body roll badly. As spindly as it is, I thought it wouldn't make much difference and someone suggested I remove it to soften up the ride. While it did soften up the ride slightly, the roll on paved roads was bordering dangerous so I immediately put it back on.

 

[phm14]

I have raced motocross and desert racing professionally for years, and I ALWAYS tell people the same thing, put your money in your suspension and handling before you ever touch the motor. Then you have a tool set to win. Go with those that live and die by Racing not some dude shop that resells springs and makes fancy videos.

Call Weller Racing you won't be disappointed. Nothing was more harsh than the YXZ when it came out, and Weller racing ran Yamaha to the top of many different championships with the most progressive fixes for that SXS! Weller Racing has over 1000 miles developing a very cost effective suspension kit for the Honda Talon. Just amazing!! Plus, they have a national champion doing their test driving not some guy rally'ing it at the dunes!! Again, Best solution on the market for the Talon R right now but I imagine the internals are all the same!!

https://www.wellerracing.com/Talon-...-Modification-Package--WR-Edition_p_4032.html

Thanks, Scotty.
I don't see anything in your link for the X...those shocks are for the R. In any case, I'll either wait for Honda to improve the X suspension, or go with a different car. These cars are sold as purpose built for off-road, and should come with tolerable suspension from the factory.

 

[scottymac]

Thanks, Scotty.
I don't see anything in your link for the X...those shocks are for the R. In any case, I'll either wait for Honda to improve the X suspension, or go with a different car. These cars are sold as purpose built for off-road, and should come with tolerable suspension from the factory.

Whether motocross, or road racing machines, from my experience I would not hold my breath for Honda to ever deliver a plush suspension system. lol IF you take off the springs on the Talon suspension, you can determine the problem in 2 seconds. Just try and push the piston back and forth. It's almost impossible to get it to move. Fixing the springs is a slight bandaid with the huge cost of causing terrible handling (roll) and could sacrifice safety at higher speeds. The problem is in the valving and oil flow. The stroke should move smoothing thru a range of speeds and it's far too resistive in the initial stroke, that is where your problem lies and that is why a soft spring only partially feels better. Like I mentioned above, I feel from what I have seen, that the Wellers are the only ones tackling this problem by installing different factory fox components with Fox on hand, with hours of hard field testing all based on the roll, balance of weight (Talons are butt heavy), thru all types of terrains. I would think just a valving change would do far more than springs, but the hype-shock groups, will gladly sell you spring kits because it's an easy cash flow. I'd call WR and they may have a solution already in the works or can do your Talon X valving.

 

[phm14]

Whether motocross, or road racing machines, from my experience I would not hold my breath for Honda to ever deliver a plush suspension system. lol IF you take off the springs on the Talon suspension, you can determine the problem in 2 seconds. Just try and push the piston back and forth. It's almost impossible to get it to move. Fixing the springs is a slight bandaid with the huge cost of causing terrible handling (roll) and could sacrifice safety at higher speeds. The problem is in the valving and oil flow. The stroke should move smoothing thru a range of speeds and it's far too resistive in the initial stroke, that is where your problem lies and that is why a soft spring only partially feels better. Like I mentioned above, I feel from what I have seen, that the Wellers are the only ones tackling this problem by installing different factory fox components with Fox on hand, with hours of hard field testing all based on the roll, balance of weight (Talons are butt heavy), thru all types of terrains. I would think just a valving change would do far more than springs, but the hype-shock groups, will gladly sell you spring kits because it's an easy cash flow. I'd call WR and they may have a solution already in the works or can do your Talon X valving.

I don't doubt that the valving is off. You may be correct about Honda not making timely improvements. Perhaps I'll re-consider the Talon at some point in the future, as there are competitors that have already worked out most of the 1st gen bugs. 30" or 32" tires will soften ride quite a bit, and the adaptive Talon transmission is reported to shift points to larger tire diameters within 20 miles or so. That could make the difference for many...without dumping a big wad of cash on rebuilding a new suspension.

 

[BlueDog1210]

You want a better ride on 1000x replace the upper springs see Bandit to solve the issue.

 

[Brian L]

Bluedog, you are 100% correct. I had the same issue with the 1000x. Rear suspension was stiff as hell! I did some research and ended up buying a set of rear only tender springs from Bandit. Once changed(which is an hour job if you have any mechanical skills at all), the machine was a totally different animal. I even went on Bandits site and gave them a great review. Some people at the first sign of an issue want to start changing everything, but I believe it was an oversight on Hondas part, not Fox that caused this.
All you have to do is look at the rear springs while the unit is sitting still and see that the upper(tender) springs are allready all touching together on all the coils.
That makes the main spring the only thing thats giving you a ride.
I did exactly as their instructions set out, as far as measurements for the top nut on the strut to the upper flange...and ended up with an inch and a 1/4 ride hieght in the rear and a much nicer ride over bumps. Just my opinions and observations here from my own experience.

 

[BlueDog1210]

Bluedog, you are 100% correct. I had the same issue with the 1000x. Rear suspension was stiff as hell! I did some research and ended up buying a set of rear only tender springs from Bandit. Once changed(which is an hour job if you have any mechanical skills at all), the machine was a totally different animal. I even went on Bandits site and gave them a great review. Some people at the first sign of an issue want to start changing everything, but I believe it was an oversight on Hondas part, not Fox that caused this.
All you have to do is look at the rear springs while the unit is sitting still and see that the upper(tender) springs are allready all touching together on all the coils.
That makes the main spring the only thing thats giving you a ride.
I did exactly as their instructions set out, as far as measurements for the top nut on the strut to the upper flange...and ended up with an inch and a 1/4 ride hieght in the rear and a much nicer ride over bumps. Just my opinions and observations here from my own experience.

Excellent summation, every X owner should do this if nothing else.

 

[BlueDog1210]

Brian L, I also changed the front tender springs as well. They also improved the ride but not nearly as much as the rear tender springs. I would say 20% compared to the massive improvement in replacing just the back ones. I ordered both but only changed the rear as I ran out of time and wanted to ride that weekend. Next weekend went back to the same location and whoops -- yup just a bit better. They also lifted the front about 1".

 

[Brian L]

Brian L, I also changed the front tender springs as well. They also improved the ride but not nearly as much as the rear tender springs. I would say 20% compared to the massive improvement in replacing just the back ones. I ordered both but only changed the rear as I ran out of time and wanted to ride that weekend. Next weekend went back to the same location and whoops -- yup just a bit better. They also lifted the front about 1".

I found that looking at the front, there was decent spacing between the coils, so just ordered the rears. If I want to lift the front slightly, I can do that with the spanner nuts. Its surprising how many other places Ive read where people think they can just adjust the spanner nuts to improve the ride quality.
Not possible, since all that does is change your ride hieght.
I just posted a new thread. Im looking for feedback on various tuners for mine. Have a look bud! Cheers.

 

[19PSU88]

All, just checking on the Bandit springs.
Received all 4, tag was off the springs.
Does anyone know if the shorter springs are for rear and longer springs are front. that would make sense to me but just double checking as both rear shocks are off and disassembled before I go back together.
Not a bandit problem - tag just fell off - stuff happens.

 

[Code54]

I believe it is the same as the factory setup. If you look at your fronts then your rears there is a noticeable difference in the length - Which I cant recall off the top of my head which was the long vs short.

 

[19PSU88]

Code54, thanks - that’s good - I carry on.
Also found a utube video and springs were on bench marked .
Appreciate the quick reply.

 

[Code54]

Hope it helps. Look forward to hearing what you think of the new springs.

 

[19PSU88]

I’ll let ya know.
New machine - 1.8 miles.
Bought early September. Kinda got busy with work, hunting season and holidays. Just started to unbolt stuff and add new modifications on.
Couldn’t resist on the springs based on the comments on this site and looking at the collapsed tenders on mine.

 

[19PSU88]

I’ll let ya know.
New machine - 1.8 miles.
Bought early September. Kinda got busy with work, hunting season and holidays. Just started to unbolt stuff and add new modifications on.
Couldn’t resist on the springs based on the comments on this site and looking at the collapsed tenders on mine.

 

[19PSU88]

I’ll let ya know.
New machine - 1.8 miles.
Bought early September. Kinda got busy with work, hunting season and holidays. Just started to unbolt stuff and add new modifications on.
Couldn’t resist on the springs based on the comments on this site and looking at the collapsed tenders on mine.

 

[19PSU88]

Made a little space to get the clip out. Much easier than fighting it.

 

[Code54]

Good idea