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I’m looking at buying the Tallon 4 setter. I do a lot of riding in Moab and rock crawling. Coming from a razor 900 XP. Want to know how the four-wheel-drive system does with rock crawling? I am nervous not having a full locked front end. Has anybody done a lot of rock crawling and had any issues with the tires spinning a little before the tire that needs traction grips?

also from my understanding the reliability should be a lot better then my rzr. Has the Talon proven to be up to Honda quality?
 

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I posted 3 videos of Moab rock crawling with the Honda Talon, and will just provide the link in at the bottom of this post.

My thoughts so far:
I have now done several 8, and 9 out of 10 level rides in Moab with the Honda Talon. I was pitted against a heavily modified RZR Rock&Trails machine, for comparison. I found the Talon to far exceed my expectations in really hard stuff. There may be some advantages to the 55% clutch reduction in the RZR, but on this level of difficulty the Talon kept up or did better. I have also owned a SXS with a Diff-Lock, and I can tell you, for 95% of tough terrain in Moab, the Talon i4wheel drive absolutely kills a locking diff. Whether that's Pritchett Canyon or Cliff hanger, I will take a i4wheel drive that I can turn with, accurately, any day over a Diff-Loc. A locking diff can cause serious problems and mechanical issues unless you know when and when not to use it. Lots of failures on X3 turbos with a Diff locks if you punch it. Bad breaks in very bad places.

I also loved the instant throttle of the Talon that some feel is jerky. I hate belt driven delay. I've come from a motocross racing background and nothing feels more unsafe than a belt slipping when I want to know where the power is and I have a 1400 foot drop next to me. Another factor, at least in Moab, is we got way ahead of many groups, because we could go 2mph to 60mph, without EVER needing to shift between low and High. After doing that a hundred times, you get way, way ahead of any machine that has to keep stop and starting to go in and out of Low/High. Only a YXZ can keep that pace up. The 6 speed manual lets you hit up to 67 mph plus with 32" tires in LOW range. Regarding, fire-roads and easy stuff, in high range, we cruised thru stuff doing 75mph feeling like it was 40mph in another SXS. Just amazing travel and handling on the Talon.

The gear box is so underrated in the reviews!!!
The 6 speed manual transmission with a magical auto clutch, really can not be compared to any Rubber-Band (belt) machine. It is where all the fun is at. You just have to drive it hard and you will be sold instantly in the fun department. It's like shifting a two stroke dirt bike down a loamy trail, but the machine is shifting up and down perfectly. So FUN!!! I was able to get up a dune hill that not even turbo X'3s were making in Moab, because they were worried about burning a belt, and I could manually control the shifting with, and once again, the elegant i4wheel drive the Honda has.

The moral implication of a Polaris:
The 900 machine you are coming off of, is a reliable Polaris for the most part, but stepping into a turbo or just a 1000 you need to accept the lack of quality and things you will invest to keep it going. I am beginning to feel people are in the dark, and EVERY SINGLE Polaris RZR should ship with an honesty statement; maybe as two giant flags. FLAG 1 is the Mexican Flag, saying, " I bought this assembled RZR to support open borders and unfair labor practices," and FLAG 2 saying, " I proudly support Communism, don't value human rights, and LOVE Polaris for selling out American Jobs." Keep in mind that both Honda and Yamaha have American Factories their SXS's come out from. I owned a YXZ and was blown away with how much labor and parts where coming out of the USA plant. The Talon is also coming out of a USA plant in limited american parts/labor, but its miles beyond what Polaris is doing. That may not be a factor at all for you, but having USA alternatives that support American jobs did factor in for me. Plus, not paying import fees, and getting one at $19K, leaves me money for fun stuff, and with the Polaris, for real rock climbing, you will invest in axels, drivelines, replace the crap china made copies of the walker evan springs, suspension, linkage, clutch mods, sway bar, a ton of belts if you get a turbo, not for fun but to replace the poor fabricated parts. I know this because I've spent hours helping my friends install all that crap.

Working on it:
The Honda is a dream to work on. Things are insanely easy to access and the machine is over built. The full shop manual is well written and accurate. Electrical, is well labeled, Oil changes are cake to do! All the plastic parts and snaps are perfect. Seam lines between plastic is the same all the way around. Look a RZR next to another RZR and they gap between the plastic panels is never the same. Look at the welds on a RZR, say on the linkage, and count the crappy bead marks, it won't be the same on the opposite side of the machine, and for sure those welds will differ on every machine. The Honda, is exactly the same on each side, exactly the same on each different machine. Why pay more, for a machine that's built like junk? Honda is quality all the way down to the washers they use.

I feel the valving is stiff a bit, with the Talon, but not really the springs. There is too much hype about being stiff on the Talon and most people don't understand it's the fluid dynamics at hand that need to be altered for rock crawling. However, the 4 seater is probably not a comparison here, and has that issue solved due to the difference in suspension.

Last thing, is one of our group members , on the last day of our Moab trip, was so impressed with ours easing thru Moab Rim, they rented a Talon that had been heavily used only in Moab, with 5,000 miles on it. We took them on Behind The Rocks/Pritchett. The Rental Talon looked as though it had even been rolled. I drove it, and there was not one squeak or noise. It was so solid, it handled and felt new. It was well abused. That if anything, that heavily rented Talon was a huge statement to me. Rent an X3, or an XP turbo and you need headphones to drown out the rattles and squeaks.

Moab Video clips:
https://www.talonsxsforum.com/threads/moab-rockcrawling-honda-talon.271/#post-1214

267
 

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I posted 3 videos of Moab rock crawling with the Honda Talon, and will just provide the link in at the bottom of this post.

My thoughts so far:
I have now done several 8, and 9 out of 10 level rides in Moab with the Honda Talon. I was pitted against a heavily modified RZR Rock&Trails machine, for comparison. I found the Talon to far exceed my expectations in really hard stuff. There may be some advantages to the 55% clutch reduction in the RZR, but on this level of difficulty the Talon kept up or did better. I have also owned a SXS with a Diff-Lock, and I can tell you, for 95% of tough terrain in Moab, the Talon i4wheel drive absolutely kills a locking diff. Whether that's Pritchett Canyon or Cliff hanger, I will take a i4wheel drive that I can turn with, accurately, any day over a Diff-Loc. A locking diff can cause serious problems and mechanical issues unless you know when and when not to use it. Lots of failures on X3 turbos with a Diff locks if you punch it. Bad breaks in very bad places.

I also loved the instant throttle of the Talon that some feel is jerky. I hate belt driven delay. I've come from a motocross racing background and nothing feels more unsafe than a belt slipping when I want to know where the power is and I have a 1400 foot drop next to me. Another factor, at least in Moab, is we got way ahead of many groups, because we could go 2mph to 60mph, without EVER needing to shift between low and High. After doing that a hundred times, you get way, way ahead of any machine that has to keep stop and starting to go in and out of Low/High. Only a YXZ can keep that pace up. The 6 speed manual lets you hit up to 67 mph plus with 32" tires in LOW range. Regarding, fire-roads and easy stuff, in high range, we cruised thru stuff doing 75mph feeling like it was 40mph in another SXS. Just amazing travel and handling on the Talon.

The gear box is so underrated in the reviews!!!
The 6 speed manual transmission with a magical auto clutch, really can not be compared to any Rubber-Band (belt) machine. It is where all the fun is at. You just have to drive it hard and you will be sold instantly in the fun department. It's like shifting a two stroke dirt bike down a loamy trail, but the machine is shifting up and down perfectly. So FUN!!! I was able to get up a dune hill that not even turbo X'3s were making in Moab, because they were worried about burning a belt, and I could manually control the shifting with, and once again, the elegant i4wheel drive the Honda has.

The moral implication of a Polaris:
The 900 machine you are coming off of, is a reliable Polaris for the most part, but stepping into a turbo or just a 1000 you need to accept the lack of quality and things you will invest to keep it going. I am beginning to feel people are in the dark, and EVERY SINGLE Polaris RZR should ship with an honesty statement; maybe as two giant flags. FLAG 1 is the Mexican Flag, saying, " I bought this assembled RZR to support open borders and unfair labor practices," and FLAG 2 saying, " I proudly support Communism, don't value human rights, and LOVE Polaris for selling out American Jobs." Keep in mind that both Honda and Yamaha have American Factories their SXS's come out from. I owned a YXZ and was blown away with how much labor and parts where coming out of the USA plant. The Talon is also coming out of a USA plant in limited american parts/labor, but its miles beyond what Polaris is doing. That may not be a factor at all for you, but having USA alternatives that support American jobs did factor in for me. Plus, not paying import fees, and getting one at $19K, leaves me money for fun stuff, and with the Polaris, for real rock climbing, you will invest in axels, drivelines, replace the crap china made copies of the walker evan springs, suspension, linkage, clutch mods, sway bar, a ton of belts if you get a turbo, not for fun but to replace the poor fabricated parts. I know this because I've spent hours helping my friends install all that crap.

Working on it:
The Honda is a dream to work on. Things are insanely easy to access and the machine is over built. The full shop manual is well written and accurate. Electrical, is well labeled, Oil changes are cake to do! All the plastic parts and snaps are perfect. Seam lines between plastic is the same all the way around. Look a RZR next to another RZR and they gap between the plastic panels is never the same. Look at the welds on a RZR, say on the linkage, and count the crappy bead marks, it won't be the same on the opposite side of the machine, and for sure those welds will differ on every machine. The Honda, is exactly the same on each side, exactly the same on each different machine. Why pay more, for a machine that's built like junk? Honda is quality all the way down to the washers they use.

I feel the valving is stiff a bit, with the Talon, but not really the springs. There is too much hype about being stiff on the Talon and most people don't understand it's the fluid dynamics at hand that need to be altered for rock crawling. However, the 4 seater is probably not a comparison here, and has that issue solved due to the difference in suspension.

Last thing, is one of our group members , on the last day of our Moab trip, was so impressed with ours easing thru Moab Rim, they rented a Talon that had been heavily used only in Moab, with 5,000 miles on it. We took them on Behind The Rocks/Pritchett. The Rental Talon looked as though it had even been rolled. I drove it, and there was not one squeak or noise. It was so solid, it handled and felt new. It was well abused. That if anything, that heavily rented Talon was a huge statement to me. Rent an X3, or an XP turbo and you need headphones to drown out the rattles and squeaks.

Moab clips:
https://www.talonsxsforum.com/threads/moab-rockcrawling-honda-talon.271/#post-1214

Scottymac excellent review. I was just wondering about the i4wheel in Moab. I don’t think Honda, or at least Honda marketing knows what they have View attachment 267
Scottymac excellent review! I was just wondering about the i4wheel in Moab. I don’t think Honda, or at least Honda marketing knows what the hell they have here.

Friday was my first ”real” ride. Like you say, the auto shift on the transmission is perfect. As I reached for the paddle shifter, it shifted as I touched it. After that, unless I wanted to shift down, pretty much left it alone. But the two best things are the traction control and anti-lock braking you get from the i4wheel drive. I was on a dirt road I’ve been on many times before in my RZR 1000. A couple of deceasing radius, descending turns that give you a pucker factor as your machine drifts toward the drop off. In the Talon..no drift! I then started pushing the accelerator into the turns to get the rear end to break lose. It wouldn’t!

Downhill, steep loose trails, where on my RZR I would be braking and tapping the accelerator to keep the clutch engaged(which inevitably free wheeled at the worst time), the Honda stays locked up, I can shift down more, add brakes it never free wheels!

Why Honda doesn't offer Fox Live on the R Model is beyond stupid. I rode my buddies RZR Pro Ultimate, then my Talon same stretch of bad trail, his bottomed out twice, but the ride was a little better. The talon has better ground clearance, no bottoming out and cleared a rock that I hit in his. Acceleration between the two, I thought the Honda had better, since it can shift down for an instant rpm spike.

Honda brought the Talon to Moab in May for rally on the rocks, that’s where I got to ride the X and R. I loved the long travel ride of the R on no shit trail conditions and speeds. Came into a turn way too hot and got on the brakes. In my RZR I would have been pumping the brakes, counter steering to keep the rear end from coming around...it stopped straight as an arrow. I asked the factory guy, does this have anti-lock braking? He said No. he didn’t know! I’ve only read one article lately that even mentions the best feature on the machine. You are also right on on fit finish and quality. And hell yes it’s nice to own a machine made (at least partly)in the USA🇺🇸
 

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Scottymac excellent review! I was just wondering about the i4wheel in Moab. I don’t think Honda, or at least Honda marketing knows what the hell they have here.

Friday was my first ”real” ride. Like you say, the auto shift on the transmission is perfect. As I reached for the paddle shifter, it shifted as I touched it. After that, unless I wanted to shift down, pretty much left it alone. But the two best things are the traction control and anti-lock braking you get from the i4wheel drive. I was on a dirt road I’ve been on many times before in my RZR 1000. A couple of deceasing radius, descending turns that give you a pucker factor as your machine drifts toward the drop off. In the Talon..no drift! I then started pushing the accelerator into the turns to get the rear end to break lose. It wouldn’t!

Downhill, steep loose trails, where on my RZR I would be braking and tapping the accelerator to keep the clutch engaged(which inevitably free wheeled at the worst time), the Honda stays locked up, I can shift down more, add brakes it never free wheels!

Why Honda doesn't offer Fox Live on the R Model is beyond stupid. I rode my buddies RZR Pro Ultimate, then my Talon same stretch of bad trail, his bottomed out twice, but the ride was a little better. The talon has better ground clearance, no bottoming out and cleared a rock that I hit in his. Acceleration between the two, I thought the Honda had better, since it can shift down for an instant rpm spike.

Honda brought the Talon to Moab in May for rally on the rocks, that’s where I got to ride the X and R. I loved the long travel ride of the R on no shit trail conditions and speeds. Came into a turn way too hot and got on the brakes. In my RZR I would have been pumping the brakes, counter steering to keep the rear end from coming around...it stopped straight as an arrow. I asked the factory guy, does this have anti-lock braking? He said No. he didn’t know! I’ve only read one article lately that even mentions the best feature on the machine. You are also right on on fit finish and quality. And hell yes it’s nice to own a machine made (at least partly)in the USA🇺🇸
HavasuDave, you bring up a good point I forgot about! At first I was impressed with the high speed handling of the Talon and like my other machine, I ran it in 2wd mainly. However, I'm learning that having it in i4wd in the fast stuff, completely increases the handling and performance. It's a brilliant system with how it works in corners and the brakes. The engine braking is insanely accurate. At that's me coming off the best in the crowd for that, a YXZ, or maybe second best now. Also, I love the fact you can be descending down a steep hill, onto something smooth and easy and tap the paddle 2 or 3 times, to upshift a few gears before you get there. You really can drive it like a manual, even in automatic mode.

It was ironic, when I was buying the talon, they let me take out the brand new RZR XP Pro Turbo Ultimate. First off, for the cost of it and just looking at what it comes with on the showroom floor, I have no clue why someone would not buy a X3 RC RR, for the same price, over the RZR, without even driving it. The RZR's plastic molding, door trim, and seats look like it was designed for a mock up, not an actual production unit. You CAN NOT even rest your arm on the door because the plastic cuts in your arm and the slope is so downward your arm slips off. Seriously?? I can NOT imagine rock crawling up something in Moab trying to see over that hood from where the seats place you. In fact, the RZR Pro seats gave you an instant bruise on the back of your head, and many stitches in the seats were misaligned. The dealer says the beadlocks are so bad they have to fill the tires every 3 days because they leak from warps in the metal rims. The welds all had over splatter and they did not even clean up the slag spots before painting the frame. Plastic panels were misaligned compared the to opposite side of the machine. Total slop work. The plastic fender flares look like the came from a unfolded pizza box and you can see the stress lines in the underside from improper draft angles in the injection molds. Did polaris stop paying industrial designers and just source the CAD work to India?? WTF? Now they won't even employ American Design Engineers? More jobs moved to Mexico is what I see the new RZR machine reflects. Waiting for the computer screen to boot up was like taking a 2002 Dell computer and comparing it to the speed at which grass grows, and here I was buying a 18 processor Mac Pro (Talon). I will admit , the RZR, lit up the tires and moved, was by far the best RZR I drove, but It gave me the overall impression I was buying the better machine, the Talon. Yet the China made RZR was $11,000.00 more! The RZR Pro Ultimate was something that Polaris should have made, about 5 years ago, despite its ever so slow electronic gimmicks. The end result is I feel like Polaris has just responded to all these SXS blogs, Youtube videos, and social media comparisons of drag racing in a straight line. The new RZR felt great for that, I guess. Just 5 minutes in the Talon, despite its lesser powered motor, and you know Honda put back the fun in SXS's because the handling and chassis. Maybe that will require and entire review on it's own.

I think Honda needs to educate people better about all their multi-billion dollar car company technology that is nested in this machine, so people can compare it against what the snowmobile companies are struggling to do with gimmicks and turbo's that fry antiquated BELTS in 10 minutes all based on farm-field drag races. This stuff is supposed to be fun "and reliable." and turning is not a crime. Getting people in the Rally in Moab , considered the gnarly of gnarly places to ride, to drive the Talon was a smart move, but Honda needs to educate better because every time I take it out, I'm blown away with things I had no clue it could do. IF anything, that Rally in Moab sold me on the Talon, and I already had an amazing Japanese SXS that, even today, is one of the funnest machines to drive. Honda just listened when Yamaha refuses to (for over 6 years now), and put a REAL 6-speed transmission in, incorporated long travel, better durability, and made a far funner machine to drive in the process.
 

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HavasuDave, you bring up a good point I forgot about! At first I was impressed with the high speed handling of the Talon and like my other machine, I ran it in 2wd mainly. However, I'm learning that having it in i4wd in the fast stuff, completely increases the handling and performance. It's a brilliant system with how it works in corners and the brakes. The engine braking is insanely accurate. At that's me coming off the best in the crowd for that, a YXZ, or maybe second best now. Also, I love the fact you can be descending down a steep hill, onto something smooth and easy and tap the paddle 2 or 3 times, to upshift a few gears before you get there. You really can drive it like a manual, even in automatic mode.

It was ironic, when I was buying the talon, they let me take out the brand new RZR XP Pro Turbo Ultimate. First off, for the cost of it and just looking at what it comes with on the showroom floor, I have no clue why someone would not buy a X3 RC RR, for the same price, over the RZR, without even driving it. The RZR's plastic molding, door trim, and seats look like it was designed for a mock up, not an actual production unit. You CAN NOT even rest your arm on the door because the plastic cuts in your arm and the slope is so downward your arm slips off. Seriously?? I can NOT imagine rock crawling up something in Moab trying to see over that hood from where the seats place you. In fact, the RZR Pro seats gave you an instant bruise on the back of your head, and many stitches in the seats were misaligned. The dealer says the beadlocks are so bad they have to fill the tires every 3 days because they leak from warps in the metal rims. The welds all had over splatter and they did not even clean up the slag spots before painting the frame. Plastic panels were misaligned compared the to opposite side of the machine. Total slop work. The plastic fender flares look like the came from a unfolded pizza box and you can see the stress lines in the underside from improper draft angles in the injection molds. Did polaris stop paying industrial designers and just source the CAD work to India?? WTF? Now they won't even employ American Design Engineers? More jobs moved to Mexico is what I see the new RZR machine reflects. Waiting for the computer screen to boot up was like taking a 2002 Dell computer and comparing it to the speed at which grass grows, and here I was buying a 18 processor Mac Pro (Talon). I will admit , the RZR, lit up the tires and moved, was by far the best RZR I drove, but It gave me the overall impression I was buying the better machine, the Talon. Yet the China made RZR was $11,000.00 more! The RZR Pro Ultimate was something that Polaris should have made, about 5 years ago, despite its ever so slow electronic gimmicks. The end result is I feel like Polaris has just responded to all these SXS blogs, Youtube videos, and social media comparisons of drag racing in a straight line. The new RZR felt great for that, I guess. Just 5 minutes in the Talon, despite its lesser powered motor, and you know Honda put back the fun in SXS's because the handling and chassis. Maybe that will require and entire review on it's own.

I think Honda needs to educate people better about all their multi-billion dollar car company technology that is nested in this machine, so people can compare it against what the snowmobile companies are struggling to do with gimmicks and turbo's that fry antiquated BELTS in 10 minutes all based on farm-field drag races. This stuff is supposed to be fun "and reliable." and turning is not a crime. Getting people in the Rally in Moab , considered the gnarly of gnarly places to ride, to drive the Talon was a smart move, but Honda needs to educate better because every time I take it out, I'm blown away with things I had no clue it could do. IF anything, that Rally in Moab sold me on the Talon, and I already had an amazing Japanese SXS that, even today, is one of the funnest machines to drive. Honda just listened when Yamaha refuses to (for over 6 years now), and put a REAL 6-speed transmission in, incorporated long travel, better durability, and made a far funner machine to drive in the process.
Man, well said! Also an excellent review of the pro ultimate. My buddy told me he could light up the tires on pavement from a stop with incredible acceleration. But what I experienced on a trail, romping on the accelerator didn’t give me any noticeable difference than doing so in my talon, with the perceived difference, that the talon reacted quicker; possibly because the turbo needs time to spool up.
 

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Here on the East Coast in PA, the 180+ turbos are useless. I get it that a drag race on a Uke Road mayy be important, but for 99.99% of the riding - all that extra plumbing is useless.

I went 6 months without a machine to get a talon X, suspension is not perfect but every motocross bike I owned needed shock and spring work no matter what the brand.

Love the DCT and real engine braking and everything else.

The pioneers around here have thousands of miles on them with mnt being only oil changes. Other than that - it’s a Honda - top quality.

As the previous owner of 2 RZR XP’s, (which I hated), between wheel bearings, squeaks, clutches, joints, belts, carrier bearings, etc. - lots of time spent wrenching and not riding. And that is with meticulous maintenance.

The high HP game is all marketing BS to get the consumer to pay for something that is never used.

Maybe west coast dune runners/racers need it. Between New York, PA, WV, etc. - the talon has way more than enough!!!!!


BTW - sub tranny oil was 6 oz. low from dealer - even Honda is not perfect.
 

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Here on the East Coast in PA, the 180+ turbos are useless. I get it that a drag race on a Uke Road mayy be important, but for 99.99% of the riding - all that extra plumbing is useless.

I went 6 months without a machine to get a talon X, suspension is not perfect but every motocross bike I owned needed shock and spring work no matter what the brand.

Love the DCT and real engine braking and everything else.

The pioneers around here have thousands of miles on them with mnt being only oil changes. Other than that - it’s a Honda - top quality.

As the previous owner of 2 RZR XP’s, (which I hated), between wheel bearings, squeaks, clutches, joints, belts, carrier bearings, etc. - lots of time spent wrenching and not riding. And that is with meticulous maintenance.

The high HP game is all marketing BS to get the consumer to pay for something that is never used.

Maybe west coast dune runners/racers need it. Between New York, PA, WV, etc. - the talon has way more than enough!!!!!


BTW - sub tranny oil was 6 oz. low from dealer - even Honda is not perfect.
Agreed 19PSU88! There is that problem of "Dude Factor" versus fun in these SXS's. Somehow these side by sides get lumped into "walk around videos" and bling, versus what they are supposed to be for; having fun in more than one direction.

In Utah, I see these guys with turbo'ed RZR's jacked up high lifter kits, monster sized American flags ( which should be China flags) waving about, and 34" tires get jammed up with more power than rocket, then they constantly get totally stuck on rides like Cliff Hanger (Moab) , holding every body up, then some guy cuts thru them on a trashed , stock 95hp YXZ, 15,000 miles on it, like knife. Makes me wonder who is having more fun?

When I was racing motocross, I would get asked by a racer and/or his parents getting into the amateur ranks, what was the best thing they could put money into. I ALWAYS answered , 1) Suspension, 2) Chassis (rider position - bars, foot pegs, seat height, tires wheels, fork rake) 3) Training, 4) a second bike, and LAST and always LAST to spend money on should be the motor. I'm not a Barsha fan, but he just won the Paris SX on a stock motor last week. I used to race a open Pro class locally for kicks, and I ran my wife's, desert set up, KTM 200 EXE against 450's. Couple times I even won, but I loved proving that having a bike spot on with suspension and handling, outweighed horsepower. Plus, I had the most fun, even though I had to work at. The Honda Talon, is that fun machine with engineering that goes beyond gobs of power in a straight line.

I think the upcoming turbo in Talon will be great, but it's not what makes the machine awesome. In the case of the RZR Pro, it's really what it was built around because it sure seems like everything was slapped together not engineered well at all.

Scott
 
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