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What is the status of your Power Steering? (check all that apply)...

  • My steering assist works perfect all the time. It is never weak or inconsistent.

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • Weak or inconsistent steering assist when stopped on asphalt.

    Votes: 17 44.7%
  • No steering assist (ever) when stopped on asphalt.

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • Weak or inconsistent steering assist when stopped on concrete.

    Votes: 14 36.8%
  • No steering assist (ever) when stopped on concrete.

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Weak or inconsistent steering assist when up against an obstacle (such as when rock crawling).

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • No steering assist (ever) when up against an obstacle (such as when rock crawling).

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • Lots of feedback when going over rough terrain like a dirt road imbedded with 3-6" rocks.

    Votes: 6 15.8%
  • Steering wheel yanked out of your hand when hitting a medium sized obstacle with 1 front tire.

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Partial/momentary loss of steering assist in the approach or apex of a turn,

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • Complete loss of steering assist for more than a few seconds requiring cool down of the PS.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Feel insecure driving with only one hand and/or "guarding" the steering wheel with your second hand.

    Votes: 2 5.3%
  • Other. Please post a comment.

    Votes: 2 5.3%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As some of you know, the Talon Power Steering isn't the best. I have researched it and come up with a possible solution but I need some data to make sure we are going in the right direction.

I would really appreciate it if every Talon owner took a couple minutes to tell me how they rank their power steering. It is important that I test the ECU Relocation and see if it solves the most common issues so I need more data PLEASE!

I built 3 prototype harnesses plus my hacked harness makes 4 test vehicles. I need this data to instruct the testers what scenarios to test most and gauge the improvement in each area.

Again, PLEASE vote in the poll. Even if you don't have problems, just vote for #1 so we know how big each problem really is.

THANKS!!!
 

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I have 32" tires installed on my 1000R. I was impressed by how much better my power steering worked when I added a second battery that was dedicated to the accessories. I didn't know it, but each accessory I installed was robbing a little more power from my steering. I got a significant amount back with the second battery. It could still be a lot better though.
 

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As some of you know, the Talon Power Steering isn't the best. I have researched it and come up with a possible solution but I need some data to make sure we are going in the right direction.

I would really appreciate it if every Talon owner took a couple minutes to tell me how they rank their power steering. It is important that I test the ECU Relocation and see if it solves the most common issues so I need more data PLEASE!

I built 3 prototype harnesses plus my hacked harness makes 4 test vehicles. I need this data to instruct the testers what scenarios to test most and gauge the improvement in each area.

Again, PLEASE vote in the poll. Even if you don't have problems, just vote for #1 so we know how big each problem really is.

THANKS!!!
Are you saying the solution to this issue is more voltage? My power steering is ok, but not the greatest. Especially on pavement. I have 30's on the 1000R. I think it is close to stock tires, but it has been so long since I drove it with them I can't remember. My question would be if the solution is more voltage, what is the long term issues with supplying more voltage? If it was that simple, why hasn't this come up before? I do hope you are right if this is what you are doing..
 

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I think PaulF has suggested the wiring is undersized. I believe his purpose in this poll is to work on a fix, likely upsized wiring and/or ECU relocation(?).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Are you saying the solution to this issue is more voltage? My power steering is ok, but not the greatest. Especially on pavement. I have 30's on the 1000R. I think it is close to stock tires, but it has been so long since I drove it with them I can't remember. My question would be if the solution is more voltage, what is the long term issues with supplying more voltage? If it was that simple, why hasn't this come up before? I do hope you are right if this is what you are doing..
Not sure where you got that impression from. I never said anything about increasing voltage. You cannot increase the voltage on a battery type system even if you wanted to.
 

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Not sure where you got that impression from. I never said anything about increasing voltage. You cannot increase the voltage on a battery type system even if you wanted to.
Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate a increase above 12 volts, but increased wire size and shorter runs can reduce the drop of both voltage and amps if I am correct. I just assumed that was one of the objectives. I am anxious to see what you come up with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate a increase above 12 volts, but increased wire size and shorter runs can reduce the drop of both voltage and amps if I am correct. I just assumed that was one of the objectives. I am anxious to see what you come up with.
That is more what my tests revealed. On my Talon, the voltage into the ECU is battery at about 15-20 amps but the voltage coming out of the ECU is dropped to 6 volts and bumped to 30-35 amps. Not sure the reasoning behind that but Honda is trying to push 35 amps over a 12 gauge wire for 16 total feet (round trip) and that is simply too many amps. My Talon experiences over 1/2 volt drop. Although that doesn't sound like much, at 6 volts, it is a 10% drop and that shows the wire is undersized.

My possible solution is to move the ECU right next to the motor with 10 gauge wire, use the factory installed 6 gauge winch line for the 20 amps it needs from the battery and all but eliminate the voltage drop between the ECU and Motor. So far, I am pleased with the results on my machine.

3 more machines being tested so we should have some definitive results shortly.
 

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When I replaced the stock battery with a Lithium Ion battery, then added a second battery and took all of my accessories off of my primary battery, I achieved much better steering. Funny thing, it wasn't even the reason I added the second battery. I could just tell that the accessories I had added were causing too much of a strain on the primary and I was concerned about parasitic draws and draining the primary. Had not had that issue because I'm careful how I wire things, but is still a possibility I wanted to eliminate. The very first thing I noticed backing out of the driveway (concrete) was that my 32" wheels steered easier. PaulF; I think you are definitely on to something (perhaps even solved the issue) of sluggish power steering due to excessive current drop. Looking forward to hearing more about it.
 

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I have under 1 hour on the machine and have noticed while driving on a bumpy trail fairly straight but required some steering say 12-15 mph the power steering would seem to fail momentarily then come right back.
 

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That is more what my tests revealed. On my Talon, the voltage into the ECU is battery at about 15-20 amps but the voltage coming out of the ECU is dropped to 6 volts and bumped to 30-35 amps. Not sure the reasoning behind that but Honda is trying to push 35 amps over a 12 gauge wire for 16 total feet (round trip) and that is simply too many amps. My Talon experiences over 1/2 volt drop. Although that doesn't sound like much, at 6 volts, it is a 10% drop and that shows the wire is undersized.

My possible solution is to move the ECU right next to the motor with 10 gauge wire, use the factory installed 6 gauge winch line for the 20 amps it needs from the battery and all but eliminate the voltage drop between the ECU and Motor. So far, I am pleased with the results on my machine.

3 more machines being tested so we should have some definitive results shortly.
Curious if you happen to know what the amp draw of the power steering motor is?
You said the voltage into the ecu is 15-20amps? I assume you meant amp draw and not voltage. When you checked this, what accessories were operating? How much load was on the rack?

What’s the voltage at the rack during full load?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ECU draws 12 Volts and up to ~18 Amps. It then inverts that to 6 Volts and up to 35 Amps. From there, voltage never changes, the ECU varies the Amperage to control how much assist.
 

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ECU draws 12 Volts and up to ~18 Amps. It then inverts that to 6 Volts and up to 35 Amps. From there, voltage never changes, the ECU varies the Amperage to control how much assist.
So it’s 6 volts AC or is “inverts” a typo?

Ok so we have 6volts ac or dc with a max amp draw of 35 amps at full load. Earlier you said you have a half volt drop, did you mean to say 5.5 volts ac or dc at 35 amps full load?

Would be great to see some pics of the meter display when this is happening, would also be great to see how often your steering is cutting out and what happens to the voltage/amp draw during those times.

This is a huge safety risk for Honda if there’s something wrong here, they would definitely want to fix this before someone gets injured. Not everyone can out muscle the lack of power steering at a critical moment.
 

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I am thinking its not a huge risk Honda's issue, I have not seen much data to show the problems on stock tires...from Pauls extensive research and hacking up his own machine, the design is on the cutting edge of efficiency (cost) - works good out of the box, change to a different tire, and no room to drive the larger loads.
 

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I am thinking its not a huge risk Honda's issue, I have not seen much data to show the problems on stock tires...from Pauls extensive research and hacking up his own machine, the design is on the cutting edge of efficiency (cost) - works good out of the box, change to a different tire, and no room to drive the larger loads.
Gotcha, I haven’t noticed anything with mine but it’s stock with only two hundred and seventy miles or so. I also haven’t gone on any gnarly trails yet.

I’d be curious if the folks having the issue are on stock wheels or aftermarket wheels? Seems like it’s mostly when stopped on a grippy surface. In that situation while on the brakes, it’ll really tax the steering since the tire is no longer pivoting in the center, it’s having to move (rotate) to a different point on the ground.
The further the center of the tire gets from the ball joints, the harder it will be to turn the steering wheel when brakes are applied or when it’s moving into or against a solid object.

Think of it this way
drill a hole in a quarter just big enough to slide over a pencil, now slide it to the center of the pencil. Now rotate the pencil in the center, the quarter doesn’t roll, it just spins in one spot. Now slide the quarter to the eraser and spin the center of the pencil, the quarter rolls around in a circle right. Now apply the brakes on that quarter on a grippy surface and that‘s most likely what you have going on with aftermarket wheels. Obviously this depends on the offset, the further away the center of tires tread gets from the ball joints, the harder it will be for the steering rack.
 
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