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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is partly a repost but I'm really curious what everyone thinks about gears spinning when at a dead stop before putting it in gear. I have read a lot on the sub transmission problems but my question is, could the problem/cause be happening before the sub trans? The gears are turning in my Talon before putting it in gear when I'm at a dead stop. How can I safely put it in gear while they are turning? They are turning somewhat fast as well. This can't be normal is it? I don't know this transmission well but it seems like the gears should not be spinning until I give it some throttle. Isn't that why everyone says, and I agree, that you do not give it gas until you know its engaged. I made a short video and here is the link:


My sub trans appears to be gone for the second time and this time it happened after only 170 miles. I was super careful this time as I'm willing to take at least partial blame for first one after reading all the advice. Almost all the 170 miles was high gear miles. I maybe used low 4 times and 2 of those time were to load it on the trailer. I don't want to rebuild it again if the problem is still there with the gears turning while at a dead stop. Someone also noticed in my video that when in low the speedo shows 2 mph but that is only in low.
 

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I may get slammed here, but I will give it a whirl.....

in R, L, H, the clutch is disengaged (3rd pedal pushed in) at idle\stopped

the electronics\hydraulics take the place of the 3rd pedal on the left and based on throttle position etc, the computer starts to engage\actuate the clutch to let the 3rd pedal out

so in effect the engine output drive shaft should not be spinning to the transfer case (sub-transmission) to start motion until it sees power being applied and start to slip\engage the clutch.....

is yours actually turning (have someone look) when the machine is at idle?

in short, something else is cooking, the 2 MPH thing is amazingly baffling,
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I may get slammed here, but I will give it a whirl.....

in R, L, H, the clutch is disengaged (3rd pedal pushed in) at idle\stopped

the electronics\hydraulics take the place of the 3rd pedal on the left and based on throttle position etc, the computer starts to engage\actuate the clutch to let the 3rd pedal out

so in effect the engine output drive shaft should not be spinning to the transfer case (sub-transmission) to start motion until it sees power being applied and start to slip\engage the clutch.....

is yours actually turning (have someone look) when the machine is at idle?

in short, something else is cooking, the 2 MPH thing is amazingly baffling,
In the video you can hear that its spinning pretty good with no throttle, just putting it in gear. I'm afraid to rebuild it if its just going to fail again because of the spinning gears.
 

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Cold oil will cause a little drag spin in the transmission and it turn the sub-trans, even with the clutch disengaged (lake any other transmission). It is usually very slow and harmless but the Talon has no syncros in the sub-trans to stop the movement. However, the Talon doesn't use normal shift collars/syncros, it uses 4 dogs on the gear and shift collar to engage the gears.

When mine is cold, it goes into H just fine. However, when I put it in L or R, it sometimes goes "rat, tat, tat, tat" a few times before engaging. It is the "dogs" engaging in the sub-trans. As long as you are stopped and idling, this is totally normal and harmless.

Your sub-trans is toast but oil friction spin did not cause that. I will stick to my original assumption that it was assembled improperly during the last rebuild.

Before you condemn anything, you need to disassemble the sub-trans and find out what exactly is broken. Then during re-assembly, measure everything per the service manual to make sure nothing was missed. You are the only one I have ever seen with your particular issue so something different broke in your sub-trans.

And in reality, there are tens of thousands of Talons out there and relatively few sub-transmission issues. More than normal but you have to realize there are probably more than 25,000 Talons that are running just fine. You hear about problems because the sub-trans is major and only those with problems post. If you count here, there have been only a handful of sub-trans rebuilds and there is over 3,000 members here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Cold oil will cause a little drag spin in the transmission and it turn the sub-trans, even with the clutch disengaged (lake any other transmission). It is usually very slow and harmless but the Talon has no syncros in the sub-trans to stop the movement. However, the Talon doesn't use normal shift collars/syncros, it uses 4 dogs on the gear and shift collar to engage the gears.

When mine is cold, it goes into H just fine. However, when I put it in L or R, it sometimes goes "rat, tat, tat, tat" a few times before engaging. It is the "dogs" engaging in the sub-trans. As long as you are stopped and idling, this is totally normal and harmless.

Your sub-trans is toast but oil friction spin did not cause that. I will stick to my original assumption that it was assembled improperly during the last rebuild.

Before you condemn anything, you need to disassemble the sub-trans and find out what exactly is broken. Then during re-assembly, measure everything per the service manual to make sure nothing was missed. You are the only one I have ever seen with your particular issue so something different broke in your sub-trans.

And in reality, there are tens of thousands of Talons out there and relatively few sub-transmission issues. More than normal but you have to realize there are probably more than 25,000 Talons that are running just fine. You hear about problems because the sub-trans is major and only those with problems post. If you count here, there have been only a handful of sub-trans rebuilds and there is over 3,000 members here.
Thank you.
 

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Thank you for that post Paul an quoting the fact it’s very few have had major problems. I very rarely see another talon around where I ride. But all the rzr I ride with have constant small problems an some
Major.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I should make it clear that I believe the Talon is an awesome machine and as soon as I figure out why I don't get along with low gear it will be the perfect machine. I ride with several other Talons and they do not have the subtrans problem and thats why I was reaching out to a greater community to try and figure out my problem. As far as RZR's I've invested way more money in fixing them than I have on this Honda.
 

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I have now had my 2019 Talon X for almost 3 years with around 4,000 miles on it. If there’s one thing I learned quickly, no disrespect to anyone, is that this machine wants to be at running temp before starting a ride. I have noticed that this makes probably 100% difference. Every blue moon I will need to just pull it out of my shop to do some wood work and I will just let it run for a few min but when I do I am very careful of how I put it in gear and how I take off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have now had my 2019 Talon X for almost 3 years with around 4,000 miles on it. If there’s one thing I learned quickly, no disrespect to anyone, is that this machine wants to be at running temp before starting a ride. I have noticed that this makes probably 100% difference. Every blue moon I will need to just pull it out of my shop to do some wood work and I will just let it run for a few min but when I do I am very careful of how I put it in gear and how I take off.
I agree but when mine went out we rode for over an hour before we got into the deep snow when I needed low gear to try and crawl and stay up on top of snow, if it wasn't up to temp by then I don't think it ever would be. I have heard every precaution there is and I agree they are all good ideas but 170 miles on a rebuild is unexcusable under almost any conditions. The rental companies out here use Talons and have no problems for 1000s of miles from people that don't know how to drive these or don't care. There are some machines or some rebuilds that are just not correct.
 
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