[MasterSheep89]

So every time I talk to someone about the engine in the Honda Talon they always give me a different number of how much the engine and trans combo is designed to take. I'm hoping to get the Kraftwerks turbo kit as soon as it comes out and I'm just curious how durable these engines are. I have a factory warranty that I'm going to avoid by getting this turbo kit, so I want to make sure it's a good call. I was at Sand sport super show last week and Jackson racing told me the Talon engine was designed to would stand up to 500 horsepower. I don't see how that is possible. I talked to others at the show that told me 200 was the number which sounds much more reasonable. 200hp per liter is massive but possible. I wish Honda would put out some concrete info on this engine. I can't find much about it online and the details I have are just out of the service manual. Does anybody have any concrete information about this engine or is it all hearsay?

 

[PaulF]

Honda has answered the question. They have drawn the line at the ~160HP that they will warranty with the Honda authorized Jackson Turbo.

There is no answer to your somewhat open ended question. It depends on how you drive it.

Some have broken clutches, sub-transmissions, driveshafts and engines with the STOCK motor. Even a few axles have broken on a stock machine.
Some are breaking the stock pistons and frying clutches with the Jackson kit.
I would say the 150-160HP that the Jackson kit produces is about as high as you should go on a stock engine and clutches and take it easy unless you upgrade to forged pistons.

Reliable 200HP??? I highly doubt it without some internal modifications and better clutches. Even if you went forged pistons and go 200HP, I would only use that much of the power at the dunes while in motion climbing a sand hill. I would not trust the rest of the drivetrain with that much power from a dead stop using launch mode.

500HP??? No way in hell. The thing would come apart in 10 seconds, even if you eased up on the throttle.

 

[MasterSheep89]

Imo the Jackson kit is poorly designed. Thin manifold, poor intercooler design and placement (more of a heat exchanger). I can see reliability issues coming from that. I go back and fourth with the turbo kits. I want one, but I enjoy my reliability. If there was an option for like 20 more HP I'd go that route.

Do you have the official statement where Honda draws the line? I'd love to hear from someone from Honda on this.

 

[PaulF]

Imo the Jackson kit is poorly designed. Thin manifold, poor intercooler design and placement (more of a heat exchanger). I can see reliability issues coming from that. I go back and fourth with the turbo kits. I want one, but I enjoy my reliability. If there was an option for like 20 more HP I'd go that route.

Do you have the official statement where Honda draws the line? I'd love to hear from someone from Honda on this.

They warranty the Talon with the Jackson Turbo. The warranty is void if you do anything else. Line is pretty clear to me.

 

[MasterSheep89]

I could care less about the warranty. I've already rolled my car. Probably voided it with that. Even if the engine exploded I could probably rebuild it in a few days. Trans included.

 

[PaulF]

If there was an option for like 20 more HP I'd go that route.

30% gain with only engine mods and exhaust. Probably around 25% with stock exhaust. Personally, I think this would be way more reliable than any forced induction...

Naturally Aspirated Stage 2 Engine Performance Packages- Honda Talon 1000

Hess Motorsports: Race Proven Engine Performance Packages Fits All HONDA TALONS both X and R Models Here is your chance to run what we run on our race cars! We developed this kit to be a reliable alternative to Boosting. Expected gains out of this kit with our tune and full HMF exhaust system...

www.hess-motorsports.com

 

[PaulF]

I could care less about the warranty. I've already rolled my car. Probably voided it with that. Even if the engine exploded I could probably rebuild it in a few days. Trans included.

In one breath you enjoy your Honda "reliability" and in the next breath you are OK rebuilding the engine. Sounds like you have already made up your mind but you want someone to tell you "It'll be OK" but you are not going to get that from Honda or anyone else.

Whether you have a warranty or not, there is a correlation between the warranty and what others have reported broken to what the engine can handle.

1. Honda will warranty up to 160 HP Jackson upgrade that uses the stock engine. They know it can go higher but limit it to 160HP because that is the limit they are willing to start taking losses at. The Talon is capable of more but the warranty claims will eat into too much profit.
2. People are starting to break the stock engine with the Jackson Turbo that produces about 160HP.

These 2 things alone indicate the reliability is limited to somewhere around 160HP max. If you improve the intercooler (which I do not think the KraftWerks unit does) and improve other aspects of a forced induction system, you may be able to go a little higher but then you run into the clutch, sub-trans, driveline and other drivetrain issues.

Can you build a 200 HP Talon? Absolutely! Will it be reliable? I highly doubt it!

You don't seem to care about warrantees. You don't seem to care if you have to spend thousands on rebuilding the engine with 160HP or spending $10K to get it to 200HP and breaking everything in the car. I would never waste that much money on a Talon and neither should anyone else.

Sounds like you should do what I am planning... Scrap the Talon idea, wait a year or 2 for BRP to develop it's DCT and get their X3 200HP unit with a DCT. They have already addressed the frame issues in the 2022 model, now all the X3 needs is a DCT and Honda will loose so many sales, the Talon will just go away.

 

[MasterSheep89]

In one breath you enjoy your Honda "reliability" and in the next breath you are OK rebuilding the engine. Sounds like you have already made up your mind but you want someone to tell you "It'll be OK" but you are not going to get that from Honda or anyone else.

Whether you have a warranty or not, there is a correlation between the warranty and what others have reported broken to what the engine can handle.

1. Honda will warranty up to 160 HP Jackson upgrade that uses the stock engine. They know it can go higher but limit it to 160HP because that is the limit they are willing to start taking losses at. The Talon is capable of more but the warranty claims will eat into too much profit.
2. People are starting to break the stock engine with the Jackson Turbo that produces about 160HP.

These 2 things alone indicate the reliability is limited to somewhere around 160HP max. If you improve the intercooler (which I do not think the KraftWerks unit does) and improve other aspects of a forced induction system, you may be able to go a little higher but then you run into the clutch, sub-trans, driveline and other drivetrain issues.

Can you build a 200 HP Talon? Absolutely! Will it be reliable? I highly doubt it!

You don't seem to care about warrantees. You don't seem to care if you have to spend thousands on rebuilding the engine with 160HP or spending $10K to get it to 200HP and breaking everything in the car. I would never waste that much money on a Talon and neither should anyone else.

Sounds like you should do what I am planning... Scrap the Talon idea, wait a year or 2 for BRP to develop it's DCT and get their X3 200HP unit with a DCT. They have already addressed the frame issues in the 2022 model, now all the X3 needs is a DCT and Honda will loose so many sales, the Talon will just go away.

I'm confused whether you are trying to start a fight with me or actually offer some good information. I bought my Talon because I wanted a Honda. Not because of the shaft drive. I'll never own a BRP product. I've got some strong feelings about child and slave labor. I don't care if that car has a thousand horsepower I'll never give my money to BRP. I wasn't down playing Honda engineering. I just wanted somebody with some real information and not just opinions. You offered me the ladder which means I'm right back where I started.

Side note to that I don't need tips on engine building and what I can and can't do. I've been building performance engines for 20 years for everything from go-karts to racing boats. Just wanted some concrete information.

 

[PaulF]

I'm confused whether you are trying to start a fight with me or actually offer some good information. I bought my Talon because I wanted a Honda. Not because of the shaft drive. I'll never own a BRP product. I've got some strong feelings about child and slave labor. I don't care if that car has a thousand horsepower I'll never give my money to BRP. I wasn't down playing Honda engineering. I just wanted somebody with some real information and not just opinions. You offered me the ladder which means I'm right back where I started.

Side note to that I don't need tips on engine building and what I can and can't do. I've been building performance engines for 20 years for everything from go-karts to racing boats. Just wanted some concrete information.

I am not trying to start a fight, I gave you EXCELLENT information and advice. If you don't like the info, that is fine, no need to get snippy.

I am confused by this that you wrote, 4 months ago you would like a Can-Am (BRP product) in your garage next to your Honda. I was not aware something drastic has changed with BRP, what changed your mind?...

 

[WalkingTall]

I am not trying to start a fight, I gave you EXCELLENT information and advice. If you don't like the info, that is fine, no need to get snippy.

I am confused by this that you wrote, 4 months ago you would like a Can-Am (BRP product) in your garage next to your Honda. I was not aware something drastic has changed with BRP, what changed your mind?...

View attachment 2994

Lol. PaulF stop it hahaha.

 

[dburt]

Why spend so much money and put so much at risk if you are not certain you can achieve your goal of about a 200 hp machine? Why not build a dedicated dune car or a Jeep that will put out several hundred horse power and have your cake and eat it too? And for about the same amount of money!

 

[KraftWerksJason]

So every time I talk to someone about the engine in the Honda Talon they always give me a different number of how much the engine and trans combo is designed to take. I'm hoping to get the Kraftwerks turbo kit as soon as it comes out and I'm just curious how durable these engines are. I have a factory warranty that I'm going to avoid by getting this turbo kit, so I want to make sure it's a good call. I was at Sand sport super show last week and Jackson racing told me the Talon engine was designed to would stand up to 500 horsepower. I don't see how that is possible. I talked to others at the show that told me 200 was the number which sounds much more reasonable. 200hp per liter is massive but possible. I wish Honda would put out some concrete info on this engine. I can't find much about it online and the details I have are just out of the service manual. Does anybody have any concrete information about this engine or is it all hearsay?

Figured I would throw some info out there since we have been testing the Talon for about a year now getting ready for the launch of our turbo kit. For best reliability 7-8psi is pretty much the sweet spot on pump gas. This will net you around 130-140whp or 160-170 crank hp. So I guess it comes down to if you are looking to reach that 200hp at the crank or the wheel. We have tested up to around 12ish PSI on stock internals and it is a rocket, but as far as longevity goes probably wouldn't recommend it haha.

 

[Hometeam]

Figured I would throw some info out there since we have been testing the Talon for about a year now getting ready for the launch of our turbo kit. For best reliability 7-8psi is pretty much the sweet spot on pump gas. This will net you around 130-140whp or 160-170 crank hp. So I guess it comes down to if you are looking to reach that 200hp at the crank or the wheel. We have tested up to around 12ish PSI on stock internals and it is a rocket, but as far as longevity goes probably wouldn't recommend it haha.

So I took what the OP is asking is that can the motor and drivetrain handle it...I personally don't consider having to put pistons in to handle the turbo power as meaning it can't handle the power. So what I hear being asked is lets say we do the minimal engine upgrade of pistons and whatnot....can the Talon setup go reliably into the 200hp? I believe it can but will need to minor engine work and it can handle much bigger power. I think that's how Jackson was answering his question when he asked it.....Which is why they said something like 500hp. Jason what is your thoughts and experience? To me its kind of like the YXZ where if you do some minor upgrades it can be built to big power!!

 

[KraftWerksJason]

So I took what the OP is asking is that can the motor and drivetrain handle it...I personally don't consider having to put pistons in to handle the turbo power as meaning it can't handle the power. So what I hear being asked is lets say we do the minimal engine upgrade of pistons and whatnot....can the Talon setup go reliably into the 200hp? I believe it can but will need to minor engine work and it can handle much bigger power. I think that's how Jackson was answering his question when he asked it.....Which is why they said something like 500hp. Jason what is your thoughts and experience? To me its kind of like the YXZ where if you do some minor upgrades it can be built to big power!!

To get to 200whp which would be 250ish crank HP you will need to build the motor and upgrade the whole fuel system. Depending on motor build 12-15psi would probably get you there. As far as the drive train there aren't many Talons out there pushing this kind of power so longevity is still to be seen.

 

[Hometeam]

To get to 200whp which would be 250ish crank HP you will need to build the motor and upgrade the whole fuel system. Depending on motor build 12-15psi would probably get you there. As far as the drive train there aren't many Talons out there pushing this kind of power so longevity is still to be seen.

Perfect! Thanks for the input and about what I was thinking on what would probably need to be done for bigger power!

 

[MtsHaVoC]

I am not trying to start a fight, I gave you EXCELLENT information and advice. If you don't like the info, that is fine, no need to get snippy.

I am confused by this that you wrote, 4 months ago you would like a Can-Am (BRP product) in your garage next to your Honda. I was not aware something drastic has changed with BRP, what changed your mind?...

View attachment 2994

My only issue with the talon and adding performance is just getting the parts! There doesn’t seem to be suppliers providing substantially upgraded parts for the clutches and diffs and trans. So it means you have to get custom, one off parts which is ridiculously expensive. The Talon is never going to be the fastest at the drag strip, but it definitely should be first up the rocky hill!!