Honda Talon Forum banner

81 - 92 of 92 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Does anyone happen to know the type of metal used for the sub trans gears? Apparently some types of alloys don’t respond well to heat treat so I would have to know the exact metallurgy before attempting.
Kinda Makes me wonder if that’s why Honda didn’t heat treat to begin with. But then again, why wouldn’t they use a better stronger alloy to cut the gears from and then heat treat after the first failures started pouring in? Who knows!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
here’s my spin on it

-based on 1 data point, sub-trannies were assembled incorrectly - I think and guess it’s small small percentage. Who knows, maybe even a bad batch of heat treated parts made it into the system. Yes, it would suck to have one of the machines that the sub-tranny failed and I feel for ya.

-remainder of talons and P1000’s have thousands and thousands of hard miles on em and are fine. I had a P1000, hammered it as much as you can a utility machine, never burped or had an issue.

-Honda overall has their crap together. Nobody on here posted any hardness/Rockwell test results of the internals. So I struggle with “soft parts” or Honda has a poorly designed sub-tranny with soft parts, this doesn’t seem to be a Maico save money on heat treatment of gears. It seems to affect a small percentage of machines.

-If there was a market (need) for replacement gear sets, they would be readily available.

-I’d slam whatever parts were needed in iput it together properly and run it.

It would be interesting to have the hardness pinged on a failed and new part to prove/disapprove that theory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
here’s my spin on it

-based on 1 data point, sub-trannies were assembled incorrectly - I think and guess it’s small small percentage. Who knows, maybe even a bad batch of heat treated parts made it into the system. Yes, it would suck to have one of the machines that the sub-tranny failed and I feel for ya.

-remainder of talons and P1000’s have thousands and thousands of hard miles on em and are fine. I had a P1000, hammered it as much as you can a utility machine, never burped or had an issue.

-Honda overall has their crap together. Nobody on here posted any hardness/Rockwell test results of the internals. So I struggle with “soft parts” or Honda has a poorly designed sub-tranny with soft parts, this doesn’t seem to be a Maico save money on heat treatment of gears. It seems to affect a small percentage of machines.

-If there was a market (need) for replacement gear sets, they would be readily available.

-I’d slam whatever parts were needed in iput it together properly and run it.

It would be interesting to have the hardness pinged on a failed and new part to prove/disapprove that theory.
I agree, mostly. But, I hit all the mud parks around the Houston area on a regular basis and the most uncommon rig out there is a talon. As in, I’m lucky if I see one at all and there are literally thousands of machines out there. So naturally I try to talk to the owner and I haven’t ran across a single one yet that didn’t have this issue. That would be a pretty big “bad batch” I would think. Maybe they have started using a stronger gear, I don’t know. Hopefully someone in this community will eventually find a good solution so we can all get back on the trail and start making fun of those damn belts again! Lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
Interesting - eastern PA - not that many here and nobody I talked to has said crap about it - just the front diff leak.
Good luck, sounds like a pita to remove.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #85 ·
here’s my spin on it

-based on 1 data point, sub-trannies were assembled incorrectly - I think and guess it’s small small percentage. Who knows, maybe even a bad batch of heat treated parts made it into the system. Yes, it would suck to have one of the machines that the sub-tranny failed and I feel for ya.

-remainder of talons and P1000’s have thousands and thousands of hard miles on em and are fine. I had a P1000, hammered it as much as you can a utility machine, never burped or had an issue.

-Honda overall has their crap together. Nobody on here posted any hardness/Rockwell test results of the internals. So I struggle with “soft parts” or Honda has a poorly designed sub-tranny with soft parts, this doesn’t seem to be a Maico save money on heat treatment of gears. It seems to affect a small percentage of machines.

-If there was a market (need) for replacement gear sets, they would be readily available.

-I’d slam whatever parts were needed in iput it together properly and run it.

It would be interesting to have the hardness pinged on a failed and new part to prove/disapprove that theory.
Honda did not heat treat the parts in the sub-transmission according to COPs, that is one issue, the other is they are made like a Switch Watch unlike the Bullitt proof engine and actual; transmission. Everything must be aligned properly. Not going to pull mine out to do a Rockwell Hardness test of the gears but if I can get my hands on a removed gear I will. I run my machine hard and no excuses for that -- is the way I ride, most of the folks I run with think I push the limits far beyond what they think is reasonable, but that is why I bought the Talon in the first place. I do not race but love to explore my and the machines limits in mud and rocks. I do have a blast! The sub-transmission is a beast to remove and I would say one of the more difficult mechanical tasks you can undertake.

All of the Talon owners I have spoken with indicate hard shifts at some point and it only takes a few for the dogs to be damaged! Hope that never happens to anyone else!

See you in the mud and rocks!
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #86 · (Edited)
Just in from COPs "Bulletproofing is done. We're two components short of completion on reduction. Making strides again. We'll make an update on the page soon." Could be the light at the end of the tunnell. If completed this will be the a fandastic addition for gear recuctions as it will only effect low and reverse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I talked to Honda today and they say they haven't heard much about this. My dealer says they have repaired 5 but none under warranty. Honda said if they hear enough about the problem they will consider helping. I hope everyone with this problem or who had this problem will call. Here is part of the email with the number:

Thank you for contacting American Honda Motor Co., Inc. We know how important your time is and will do our best to respond to you as quickly as possible. We appreciate your patience.

You may also reach us by phone at 1-866-784-1870. Our business hours are Monday through Friday, 8:30 am to 4:30 pm PST. We are closed on holidays.

We strongly encourage customers to visit Recalls - Honda to check their VIN for any potential recalls. If your vehicle is affected, please visit an authorized Honda Powersports dealer as soon as possible. All safety recall repairs are made FREE of charge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Not sure what spacer and no way of knowing unless you have a part number.
I think he meant the parking collar. I'm glad he mentioned it because mine is on the list. I bought mine after the letters went out but dealer never told me. It does make me wonder if it affects the low/reverse gear or if anything else is missing:

Summary
19-20 MY PIONEER 1000 & TALON 1000 PARKING COLLAR
Safety Risk
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES,THE PARKING COLLAR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED DURING TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY. IF THE COLLAR WAS NOT INSTALLED, IN WHICH CASE, THE VEHICLE MAY MOVE OR ROLL WHILE THETRANSMISSION LEVER IS IN THE PARK POSITION.
Remedy
CALL ANY AUTHORIZED HONDA POWERSPORTS DEALER AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR INSPECTION/REPAIR.PLEASE ASK YOUR HONDA DEALER FOR THE SPECIFIC TIME YOUR SIDE-BY-SIDE WILL NEED TO STAY AT THEDEALERSHIP WHEN MAKING AN APPOINTMENT. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS RECALL OR NEEDASSISTANCE LOCATING AN AUTHORIZED HONDA POWERSPORTS DEALER, PLEASE CALL HONDA POWERSPORTSCUSTOMER SUPPORT: 1-866-784-1870 OR USE THE FIND A DEALER OPTION ON WWW.POWERSPORTS.HONDA.COM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
I think he meant the parking collar. I'm glad he mentioned it because mine is on the list. I bought mine after the letters went out but dealer never told me. It does make me wonder if it affects the low/reverse gear or if anything else is missing:

Summary
19-20 MY PIONEER 1000 & TALON 1000 PARKING COLLAR
Safety Risk
ON CERTAIN VEHICLES,THE PARKING COLLAR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED DURING TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY. IF THE COLLAR WAS NOT INSTALLED, IN WHICH CASE, THE VEHICLE MAY MOVE OR ROLL WHILE THETRANSMISSION LEVER IS IN THE PARK POSITION.
Remedy
CALL ANY AUTHORIZED HONDA POWERSPORTS DEALER AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR INSPECTION/REPAIR.PLEASE ASK YOUR HONDA DEALER FOR THE SPECIFIC TIME YOUR SIDE-BY-SIDE WILL NEED TO STAY AT THEDEALERSHIP WHEN MAKING AN APPOINTMENT. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS RECALL OR NEEDASSISTANCE LOCATING AN AUTHORIZED HONDA POWERSPORTS DEALER, PLEASE CALL HONDA POWERSPORTSCUSTOMER SUPPORT: 1-866-784-1870 OR USE THE FIND A DEALER OPTION ON WWW.POWERSPORTS.HONDA.COM
The collar makes no difference in Low/Reverse. If it is missing, the parking pawl doesn't always engage properly. My powerhouse dealer checked hundreds of them and never found one missing. And not one report elsewhere of a missing collar and personally, I think it was a one off mistake and the CPSC overreacted and made Honda check them all.

Also, There was a "Stop Sale" placed on all Talons and Pioneers and the dealers were instructed to inspect all their units in stock before they were allowed to sell any so yours should have been checked before you bought it. Honda makes them do a service request for reimbursement so if it was done, they will already have record of it. Call them and ask if you haven't already.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #91 ·
Paul is correct nothing to do with the sub transmission failures other than the fact they did leave some of the out and with those park will not work on a hill.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Ya, I definitely hear less about the collar than the low/reverse gear problem. I guess at least part of my point is that mistakes can be made even by Honda. Don't get me wrong, I love my Talon and was very happy to buy the first year when they finally starting making a sport SXS and I've been a ride red guy since my 250r in 1986. I spent 2011 until 2019 on a RZR but I am happy to be back.
 
81 - 92 of 92 Posts
Top