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2021 1000X Live Valve
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On cars and trucks these days, you can disable traction control using the skid control button. (On my Toyota trucks, you have to come to a stop, and hold the button down for 3 seconds.) This gives you an open differential, which is useful at times when you just want to spin the wheels and not have traction control fight against you, like in deep sand and snow.

I find that i4WD is almost useless in the sand! Say the left tire is slipping (something is always slipping in sand!). The system brakes that wheel and transfers the power to the right wheel. Then the right wheel slips, and it brakes that wheel and transfers the power back to the left wheel. And so on...back and forth all day long! This causes a kind of back and forth jerking of the front end, and doesn't really do much to help you get up a dune.

So is there a work around this? Is there a way to get the same effect as holding down the skid control button???
 

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Other users report that the system works well for them on the trails and in the mud, but have not heard much about sand running! Are you running stock tires, or do you run paddles in the rear and the slick tires on the front? Do you run low tire pressure or standard 12-16 lb per tire? Don't know if tire pressures would affect the operation of the i4WD much or not, just wondering?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have 4 Toyota trucks and they all do the same thing, although it isn't as noticeable as in the Talon. If you run to long and to hard full bore in sand with traction control, you risk overheating and wearing out your brakes quickly. I am quite happy with the Talon i4WD in all other situations, just not sand (no mud to speak of here in the desert). The Talon is big and heavy, so momentum is everything, and you have to run balls out. Kind of the way you have to ride a dirt bike in sand.

I am not a "duner" per se, but I run a lot of sand washes and occasional small dunes I find here and there. I am running Terra Masters (30X10-15") all the way around, and am very pleased with their performance in sand. The Terra Masters do way better than the stock tires, or the BFG KM3's that I run on hardpack or rocks....so I am very well satisfied that this is NOT a tire issue.
 

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On cars and trucks these days, you can disable traction control using the skid control button. (On my Toyota trucks, you have to come to a stop, and hold the button down for 3 seconds.) This gives you an open differential, which is useful at times when you just want to spin the wheels and not have traction control fight against you, like in deep sand and snow.

I find that i4WD is almost useless in the sand! Say the left tire is slipping (something is always slipping in sand!). The system brakes that wheel and transfers the power to the right wheel. Then the right wheel slips, and it brakes that wheel and transfers the power back to the left wheel. And so on...back and forth all day long! This causes a kind of back and forth jerking of the front end, and doesn't really do much to help you get up a dune.

So is there a work around this? Is there a way to get the same effect as holding down the skid control button???
No, you cannot disable i4WD. You can pull the fuse but you loose all 4WD totally because the same circuit is used to electrically engage the front diff. Someone was trying to make a manual engagement switch a whole back but didn't get anywhere so they quit trying.

That said, there might be something amiss with your machine. I have over 3000 miles on my machine and about 2500 miles of that at the sand dunes. I have tried stock tires, 30" Tusk Terrabites, some cheap 28" paddles and now on 30" Skat Track Extremes. At the dunes, I use i4WD about 80% of the time and not once has my machine exhibited what you describe.

In the sand with the Skats, my machine goes good in 2WD. In i4WD, she goes fantastic and I have absolutely no back and forth jerking and she drives perfectly straight when pulling a hill of any slope (as long as the sand is somewhat smooth). If not smooth, it has a tenancy to follow other tracks but that is completely normal and any machine does that. There are5 other Talons in our group and about 10 other Talons at the dunes I frequent and in almost 2 years, not one of them has ever mentioned anything like what you describe.

A possible telltale sign that your i4WD is overworking is front brake pad wear. My brakes are still factory (3000+ miles) and are only about 1/4 worn and most of that is likely from other activities such as trail riding and rock crawling and not duneing.

For those reasons, I would suspect something isn't working quite right with your machine.

I was taught one trick by Jeff Proctor to get your i4WD working at its best. Thoroughly bleed your brakes. He said that the race team Talons both worked noticeably better after bleeding the brakes. I tried and noticed a big difference in how the brakes stopped the spinning tire in the slick stuff and rock crawling. Much faster response, less ABS motor chatter and better traction. Seems like there may have been a tiny bit of air in the system. I guess the factory doesn't put a lot of effort into bleeding the brakes. You may want to start with bleeding all the brakes and see if that helps at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The brake bleeding thing is good advice. I have never been impressed with the brakes on any UTV or ATV, and a quick and dirty bleed at the factory might be a contributing factor.

When Honda introduced the Talon out at Sand Hollow back in 2019, one of the reviewers brought up the i4WD vs sand issue. (If I can find a link, I will post it.) Having experienced it before in the trucks, I am perhaps more hyper aware than the average owner. I must say that the skinny stock tires are absolutely the worst. They dig in very easily, so almost any aftermarket tire should be an improvement.

Another issue is that I don't have the luxury of being able to run aired way down. In the desert washes, there can be rocks hidden beneath the sand, and if you hit one you can get a rim pinch or even break a rim. I tend to run 12-14 psi. Plus, it is a mixed bag or terrain. You can pop our of a wash and be on hardpack where a half flat tire is going to be dangerous, or find yourself rock crawling in a technical section, where a sidewall tear is a big risk.
 

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I have never experienced the problems you are talking about?
Ive riding dunes with the stock tires aired down and they actually worked pretty good, my 30” terribytes however do not, they tend to sink in, but I have a set of system 3 paddles which work awesome! Most of the time at Glamis I am in 2wd and only if I need to get going or I’m going real slow do I use 4wd.
 

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The brake bleeding thing is good advice. I have never been impressed with the brakes on any UTV or ATV, and a quick and dirty bleed at the factory might be a contributing factor.

When Honda introduced the Talon out at Sand Hollow back in 2019, one of the reviewers brought up the i4WD vs sand issue. (If I can find a link, I will post it.) Having experienced it before in the trucks, I am perhaps more hyper aware than the average owner. I must say that the skinny stock tires are absolutely the worst. They dig in very easily, so almost any aftermarket tire should be an improvement.

Another issue is that I don't have the luxury of being able to run aired way down. In the desert washes, there can be rocks hidden beneath the sand, and if you hit one you can get a rim pinch or even break a rim. I tend to run 12-14 psi. Plus, it is a mixed bag or terrain. You can pop our of a wash and be on hardpack where a half flat tire is going to be dangerous, or find yourself rock crawling in a technical section, where a sidewall tear is a big risk.
FYI, I was somewhat mistaken about bypassing i4WD. The owner of the Honda sxs forum did figure it out and you can "kind of" bypass it. You basically engage the front driveshaft coupler clutch without engaging i4WD. See this post for details and a link to the required harness...


Also, if you wait a couple months, there will be a TORQ Locker available for the Talon...

 
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